A Malevolent Doctrine

I am afraid that there is something missing in most of the Lord’s churches today.  I say that based on some fairly solid evidence.  I think there is no question that one thing that is for sure missing in the Lord’s churches is the Lord’s people.  Most Baptist churches that I am familiar with generally have at least twice the membership, or more, of their average weekly attendance. 

It would be easy to say that this is because most people on church rolls are still lost.  I would not argue to hard against that, but I don’t think that is the case with all of those who profess Christ and forget the church. 

But even within those who are attending it seems to me that something is still missing.  I have been in services before where the preacher could have read from a Hong Kong cook book, and he would have been “amen’d” all the way out the back door.  Pastors often hear people say, “I may not be there in body, but I’ll be there in spirit.”  There are some people that ought to be saying the other side of the coin, “I may be there in body, but I’ll not be there in spirit.” 

The Bible states clearly in Hebrews 10:25, “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is, but exhorting one another and so much the more as ye see the day approaching.”  The sad fact is that most believers do not really see that the day is approaching.  When men and women, boys and girls really see that the day is approaching, not only will the pews be full of bodies AND spirits, but the pulpits of our land would be fired up as well.

But that’s not what this article is about.

It is about something much worse.

It is about a doctrine that is being taught in the Lord’s churches that is causing people not to see the approaching day.

This past year I found my self actually having to defend the doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture to a Baptist preacher who pastors a church with the same like faith and order as mine.    To sum up the entire debate, of which he asserted a “post-trib” rapture, my question to him was this; “so if what you are saying is true, Jesus couldn’t come back at any moment?  He couldn’t come back and call us to the clouds tonight?”  His reply was, “yes that’s right.” 

My reply to him then and to any now, is “no that’s wrong.”  That is not just wrong on a harmless point of secondary doctrine, that is deadly wrong concerning a fundamental fact of our faith.  After dealing with this brother I have come to the place that in my estimation this “Post tribulation Rapture Theology” is more dangerous to evangelism and the call for missions than the Primitive Hardshell doctrines of extreme Calvinism.

I preach that Christ is coming, and could come at any moment.  They preach, He is not – relax.

I am looking for Christ.  They are looking for Antichrist.

I am looking up for the redemption that draweth nigh.  They are looking forward anticipating the tribulation.

The greatest danger that the doctrine of Post-Tribulation Rapture theology presents is that it totally and completely eliminates and denies the “imminent” return of Christ.  It removes the urgency, and the emergency that is called for in Hebrews 10:25.

Our Lord made it very clear in Matthew 24:48 that it is an evil servant that says, “my Lord delayeth his coming.”  I say here without doubt or debate that the Lord will not delay His coming.  “For yet a little while and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.” Hebrews 10:37.

The bottom line is that most Christians have been chlorophormed into carelessness, and have been fed a diet of spiritual morphine so that we do not have a sense of urgency concerning our Lord’s calling us to meet Him in the air.  But what is worse, is that some of our own preachers are injecting them with these spiritual drugs numbing their hearts to the promise of Christ and the plan in scripture.  This doctrine is a malevolent, malicious, and deadly doctrine.  The reality is that the scriptures do not teach it.

There needs to be a change.  And Jesus is it.  The truth is that Jesus Christ could call our names at any moment to meet Him in the air.  There are more moments behind us than there are in front of us.  The Bible says that Christ has spoken to us in “these last days” implying that there are less days after the cross than there were before the cross.  Time is marching and moments are vanishing.  Each second is one closer to the time that we will see Jesus. 

I hope and pray that those who hear those false teachings will make a change, and realize that the Jesus is not going to tarry, and He is not going to come get us after the antichrist has had his shot at us.  We are not appointed unto wrath, and are anxious to be delivered before it comes.

As we approach the year 2010 our message is still the same.  This could be the year.  This could be the time.  Every minute He does not come is one more minute that people have the opportunity for real eternal change; and of course that change is Jesus.  He is the only change worth making, because He is the only real change at all.

8 comments on “A Malevolent Doctrine

  1. Copperautis says:

    Post-trib rapture? Then where is the church? I would think in Rev 4 – 19 you’d see something. You’ve got nothing but “the church this” and “the church that” all through Rev 1 – 3, and then poof…nothing until 22:16. Seal, trumpet, bowl judgments – all of it – the church is not there. In 13:9 John tells “anyone” to hear…not like it was in 1 – 3 where Christ speaks “…to the churches.” Saints are mentioned in 13:7 & 10, but these are those saved during the Tribulation.

    I have dealt with this personally, as well. At a Baptist church, my Dad had heard a series of messages on post-trib rapture and he wanted me to listen to the tapes. Long story short, my Dad decided to no longer attend that church. The pastor later left that church, and sadly it actually closed its doors a short time after.

    I can only pray that urgency might be found, by those that are or have been confused by a misguided minister, in the fact that they do not know the number of days in their own lives.

    I have to say, you have inspired me for a future sermon, my friend.

  2. Hi Bro. Haney,

    First of all, I hope you and yours had a very wonderful Christmas and hope that you have a very prosperous New Year in the Lord.

    Secondly, I think that the rapture is one issue that although there are very emotional debates about, is one that we all agree should never be a test of fellowship. I would like to present a few Scriptures for you (and could give more) that seem to give crystal clear evidence for a post-tribulation rapture. To me, one who preaches and teaches pre-trib is failing to prepare the Lord’s people for the persecution that is about to come upon them. Here are the Scriptures that I promised:

    “And he said, GO THY WAY, DANIEL (O.T. saint): for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination, that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. BUT GO THY WAY TILL THE END BE: FOR THOU SHALT REST, AND STAND IN THY LOT (be resurrected to recieve his reward) AT THE END OF THE DAYS (1335 days).” (Daniel 12:9-12)

    “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light (corresponds with the sixth seal of Revelation), And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds (“in like manner as you have seen him go into heaven (Acts 1:11)) with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect (Colossians 3:12 refers to the Colossian brethren, both Jew and Gentile, as elect) from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors (“redemption draweth nigh”, according to Luke 21:28). Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and GAVE AUTHORITY TO HIS SERVANTS (we both agree that kingdom authority has been granted by the Lord to His N.T. churches), and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. (Mark 13:24-34)

    “Now we beseech you, brethren (Thessalonican brethren), by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, AND BY OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM (rapture), That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for THAT DAY SHALL NOT COME, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, AND THAT MAN OF SIN (Antichrist) BE REVEALED, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God (abomination of desolation in the middle of the tribulation when the Antichrist turns upon the Jews and the saints of the Lord). Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. AND THEN (after that at the end of the tribulation)shall that wicked be revealed, WHOM THE LORD SHALL CONSUME with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.” (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8)

    I could give you a few more key Scriptures but I will stop for now. Btw, I don’t think you’re a heretic for believing and teaching the pre-trib position. God Bless.

    • Copperautis says:

      Bro. Melton,

      You are quite correct in that this can be a very emotional debate, and that it should never be a test of fellowship. Please know it was not my intent to prompt a debate with my use of scripture references. My previous passionate comment could have certainly been interpreted as aggressive. For that, I apologize.

      I considered replying to your comment with an answer and scripture references. However, for us to continue may spur further confusion of those that may read our correspondences. I would like to simply say, I respect your opinion, and at the same time respectfully disagree.

      Like most debates, any camp that has a conviction about a subject will not likely be persuaded to the opposing position by further debate. I can only speak for myself, and say I have weighed both sides and simply have a strong conviction to pre-Trib rapture.

      This debate (in my case) is probably best left to actual bible scholars, such as Dr. Thomas Ice, Dr. Mal Couch, Dr Robert Dean, Dr. John Whitcomb, and Dr. Mike Stallard, and organizations such as the Pre-Trib Research Center. Their writings and discussions are reachable online at http://www.pre-trib.org

      God Bless

  3. Bro. Melton,

    Thanks for your comments. I wrote a lengthy reply and pushed the wrong button, so here goes a shorter version.

    The scripture that you use to present Post-Trib theology is the exact scripture that outlines the Pre-Trib truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 serves as an escatological chronology outlined by the Apostle Paul himself. Without going into sermon mode, I will give you a bullet point outline.

    verse 1 – “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” – that’s the second coming.
    – “our gathering together unto Him.” – that’s the rapture.

    verse 3 – “except there come a falling away first and the man of sin be revealed.”
    The Thessalonians had believed that they had missed the Second Coming of Christ,
    and Paul is explaining to them that is not the case because before Christ comes
    again the Antichrist will have his day.

    verse 7 – 8 –
    – “He who now letteth will let until he be taken out of the way” – that’s rapture!
    – The presence of the Lord’s people and the working of the Holy Spirit is the dam
    against all hell breaking loose on earth as we speak. Once the rapture occurs, and
    God’s righteous people and Spirit are “taken out of the way” THEN, what happens? – The
    Wicked shall be revealed.

    Paul lays out the order very plainly.
    1 – Before the Second Coming the Man of Sin will be Revealed.
    2 – Before the Man of Sin is revealed, He who now letteth will be taken out of the
    way – rapture.

    Taken in plain reverse order, Rapture, Man of Sin revealed, Second Coming.

    You are right that before the second coming, the man of sin must be revealed. But the man of sin is not revealed until after the rapture.

    I have much more to say, but not enough time and space to say it here.

  4. Bro. Copernicus,

    My comments were not directed at all toward you, but more toward the original post. My whole point is that, while we disagree, we should not get upset and make this particular issue a test of fellowship. I am not upset toward Bro. Haney but have been for lack of a better word shocked at his position. This has been discussed before on the Landmark Baptist forum and, while we may disagree, I don’t understand Bro. Haney’s seeming implication (I am trying to choose my words very carefully and as he did not say this but he called post-tribulation rapture false teaching) that a post-tribber is almost in his mind a heretic. That was the point of my last statement is that while I show evidence from Scripture for my position, I do and would not call him a heretic for his even though as I said, I don’t believe a pre-tribber prepares his congregation or students for what’s coming upon the world. I have more to discuss on this subject but right now I am out of time myself. Hopefully we can continue this discussion.

    In Christ,
    Bro. Jonathan Melton

  5. wabd says:

    Greetings Gents,

    I have one scripture to quote, whoever understands this scripture would have the answer to whether the rapture is pre-trib or post trib.

    John 14:1-4

    14 “Let not your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 “In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 “And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

    In grace,


  6. Jeanette says:


    by Dave MacPherson

    The word “secrecy” when applied to Christ’s return can refer to two different things: time and visibility. Before 1830 the only coming Christians looked for was the “every eye shall see him” second advent to earth – secret only in point of time.
    Enter Margaret Macdonald in 1830. She saw “the one taken and the other left” before “THE WICKED” [Antichrist] will “be revealed” – and added that her pretrib rapture would not be “seen by the natural eye” but only by “those who have the light of God within.” Her rapture was doubly secret: at an unknown day and hour and also invisible to “outsiders.”
    Desperate to eliminate Margaret as the pretrib originator and the Irvingites as the first public teachers of pretrib, Darby defender Thomas Ice foolishly claims that they taught a secret POSTTRIB coming even though he knows that when Hal Lindsey teaches “one taken” etc. before the Antichrist “is revealed” Lindsey is expressing the kernel of the pretrib view – what MM and the Irvingites clearly taught before Darby did! Google “X-Raying Margaret” and “Edward Irving is Unnerving” to see why they are properly labeled “pretrib.”)
    As early as June 1832, Irving’s journal taught that only “to those who are watching and praying…will Christ be manifested…as the morning star. To the rest of the church, and to the world, this first appearance will be…unintelligible.” (“Present State of Prophetic Knowledge” etc., p. 374)
    Always trailing and “borrowing” quietly from the Irvingites who in turn had “borrowed” from Margaret, Darby in 1845 finally sounded like them when he wrote that “the bright and morning Star…is the sweet and blessed sign to them that watch…And such is Christ before He appears [at the final advent to earth]. The Sun will arise on the world….The star is before the [Sun], the joy of those who watch. The unwakeful world, who sleep in the night, see it not.” (“Thoughts on the Apocalypse,” p. 167)
    And Lindsey’s “Late Great Planet Earth,” p. 143, says that “the second coming is said to be visible to the whole earth (Revelation 1:7). However, in the Rapture. only the Christians see Him – it’s a mystery, a secret.”
    My bestselling book “The Rapture Plot” (available at online stores including Armageddon Books) has 300 pages of such documentation and proves that Margaret was the first to “see” a secret, pretrib rapture, that the Irvingites soon echoed her in their journal (which Darby admitted he avidly read), and that Darby was last on all of the crucial aspects of dispensationalism.
    Shockingly, all of the earliest pretrib development rested solely on unclear OT and NT types and symbols and NOT on clear Biblical statements. Margaret’s rapture was inspired by Rev. 11’s “two witnesses.” And her “secret visibility” rested on the “types” of Stephen, Paul, and John – all of whom saw or heard what others couldn’t see or hear.
    For 30 years Darby’s pretrib basis was the rapture of Rev. 12’s “man child” – actually his plagiarism of Irving’s usage of this “pretrib” symbol eight years earlier!
    As I said at the start, the “second advent to earth” is secret in point of time with its unknown “day and hour,” as Christ stated. Pretribs assert that if Christ returns for the church after the tribulation, we could count down the days and figure out the actual date of His return – which would contradict Christ’s words.
    But pretribs deliberately ignore the fact that Christ said that the tribulation days will be shortened – and He didn’t reveal the length of the shortening!
    Our opponents also assume that the “watch” verses prove the “any-moment imminence” of Christ’s return. But do they? II Peter 3:12 says we are to be “looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God” which all premills claim is at least 1000 years ahead of us and therefore hardly “imminent”! What’s the difference between “watching for” and “looking for”?
    You have just learned a few of the many secrets that the Secret Rapture Gang has hidden for a long time. Evidently they have forgotten Luke 12:2’s warning that “there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed”!
    PS – For the ultimate in uncovered secrets, see engines like Google and type in “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty.”

    [I recently stumbled across the above web article. Can anyone answer it?]

  7. That is interesting that you put so much clout upon the concept of pre-trib idea of immanency. After all this concept of immanency is borrowed from the scriptures that the pre-trib doctrine designates as second coming events. Such as Matt. 24:36 as, of that day, no one knows the day or the hour… where “that day” is clearly referring to the second coming. Or the concept of Jesus coming as a “thief” Matt. 24:41,42… but here again Peter and Revelation refer to this time and again it too is second coming in it’s timing… 2 Peter 3:10, and Rev. 16:15. In fact, NOWHERE can the idea of immanency be placed upon a pre-trib rapture event from Scripture. It is entirely conjured by man and man’s doctrines.

    Even Paul in writing 2 Thess. 2 is telling the people that certain events must take place FIRST prior to our gathering together with Him. One, being the man of perdition being revealed… However, the conjured up word of immanency to preach the pre-trib concept is flavored with the doctrines of man.

    It’s an interesting accusation that those who don’t preach immanency preach apathy… or relax as you say. Consider Luke 21:36…”Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

    If your view is pre-trib, then you see the concept of escaping as the rapture. You know that you need to be saved as a per-requisite of being raptured and ‘Bingo’ you’ve made the grade.

    However, if you are post-trib then you actually look at the verse and understand that you are commanded to “pray always, that you may be counted worthy..” You understand that salvation does not come by works or worthiness, and know that a great many terrible things are coming upon the Earth and totally understand the need to amp up the praying always concerning escaping ALL these things. Any apathy and slack in prayer could reduce the worthiness and bring an open door removing the worthiness to escape it all.

    If however, you come at this verse from a pre-trib view… you dump parts of it… like the command to “pray always.” Why would you continually pray to be saved? What a faithless prayer! And what in the world does worthiness or works have to do with salvation? Unless, of course, you think that some saved people won’t actually get raptured when Christ comes with all of His saints who have gone on before for His bride who has made herself ready on Earth…1 Thess. 3:12,13.

    If you know that worthiness has nothing to do with the rapture and that Jesus actually commanded us to be “praying always” to be able to escape the terrible things coming, the you also understand that the escape written in this passage CANNOT be referring to the rapture. I ask you, a pre-tribber, how is that going? The praying always part? Kind of a mute point and a preposterous idea that Jesus had…. to “pray always” eh? Of course, if you are wrong and the rapture doesn’t happen as you suppose…. you are WAY behind in your prayers!

    The Church of Philadelphia fulfilled the contingency that was necessary to escape it all in Rev. 3:10. You DO see the contingency. It’s not a blanket promise to all that they will escape the hour of temptation like the pre-trib doctrine teaches. Pray, that you may be worthy to escape it all.

    Consider what Jesus states, He tells us to be of “good cheer” and be at “peace” concerning the tribulation that we are promised in this world John 16:33. Paul tells us that he “glories” in the tribulation that he has to experience Rom 5:3. The doctrine of man (pre-trib) gives out a get “out of tribulation ‘free’ card”, but nowhere in scripture does is that backed. We are assigned us to tribulation and persecution… John 16:33, 2 Tim 3:12. Jesus tells us that those who are not prepared for persecution and tribulation will immediately stumble, and calls them stony soil.

    China say this immediate stumbling when the persecution hit. The pre-trib doctrine was widely taught prior to persecution. When it hit many thought the rapture would save them. It, of course, did not and a great apostasy incurred. The leaders who lived through this persecution were interviewed and they shared their greatest remorse was that they had taught the pre-trib doctrine. Rather they wished they would have prepared their people for the tribulation that God promises His people.

    Concerning immanency…. Paul tells us that the there will be a great apostasy (falling away) prior to to our gathering together with Him (2 Thess. 2:1-4). Simple math tells us that those who think they will be getting raptured, but instead find themselves facing tribulation instead will “immediately stumble” as Jesus has promised of the stony soil and as we’ve seen the the persecuted world. This “falling away” is yet to be seen. Sad to consider this great apostasy being masked in the concept of the lie of immanency. This massive set up of this doctrine of devils of the pre-trib lie of being raptured out of tribulation in the World is about to unleash history repeating itself here, just like in China. It will be on a worldwide scale fulfilling 2 Thess. 2:4 of the great falling away. Then will the fulfillment of Paul’s words of what must happen first (prior to our gathering together with Him) and Christ can return.

    The reason that Paul addresses vs 4 is because the Thessalonians were experiencing great tribulation (addressed in chapter one (2 Thess.)), and Paul needed to eliminate the concept that Jesus could return at any time to them (immanency).

    You address a simple matter of apathy as an accusation concerning a post-trib view. As if we aren’t going to be judged according to our works and how we live our lives anyways. Whether or not Jesus comes in our lifetime or not, your argument is a mute point! An accusation is just as easily pinned upon a pre-trib view, if not more so, because of the escapism that the view represents. Tribulation works righteousness. We see that throughout the Word. Avoiding tribulation produces non-overcomers. The fact of the matter is the the pre-trib doctrine IS an extremely dangerous and devastating doctrine known to the end time church. The escapism produces stony soil, thus non-overcomers.

    We are not assigned to wrath, but to salvation and forever living with Him…. 1 Thess. 5:9,10. It’s important to understand that God’s wrath is NOT temporal, but Eternal. It is Hell… Rev. 14:10-11.

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